Culp and Robinson named 2013 senior nominees

08/22/2012

Defensive tackle Curley Culp and linebacker Dave Robinson were named today by the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Seniors Committee as finalists for election into the Hall of Fame with the Class of 2013.

Culp and Robinson will join 15 yet to be named modern-era candidates on the list of finalists from which the Class of 2013 will be selected. The Hall of Fame selection meeting will be held on Feb. 2, 2013, the day before Super Bowl XLVII in New Orleans, La.

Culp was selected in the second round of the 1968 draft by the Denver Broncos but was soon traded to the Kansas City Chiefs. He spent the first six-plus seasons with the Chiefs where he was an integral member of the team’s Super Bowl IV championship team.

He continued his dominating play after a blockbuster trade landed him with the Houston Oilers in 1974. He was named the NFL’s Defensive Player of the Year by the Newspaper Enterprise Association in ’75. Noted for his tremendous strength, Culp’s impact on the football field was recognized by his six Pro Bowl selections. In addition, he earned first- or second-team All-Pro acclaim five times and was named All-AFC his first three full seasons with the Oilers. He finished his NFL career with the Detroit Lions.

Robinson joined the Green Bay Packers as the team’s first round draft pick in 1963. He immediately made his presence felt on a team that dominated pro football during that decade.

The 6’3”, 245-pound product of Penn State helped anchored the Packers defense as the team enjoyed sustained success. He helped Green Bay to three straight NFL championships including victories in Super Bowls I and II.

After ten seasons with the Packers, Robinson finished his NFL career by playing two years with the Washington Redskins (1973-74).

He was named to three Pro Bowls, earned All-NFL acclaim three times, and was named to the NFL’s All-Decade Team of the 1960s. Robinson recorded 27 interceptions from his linebacker spot during a 155-game career.

The former defensive greats must receive the same 80 percent voting support that is required of all finalists. The Hall’s Selection Committee can elect a maximum of two senior candidates and five modern-era candidates for a class no smaller than four or larger than seven.

The Seniors Committee is comprised of nine members of the overall selection committee. Through mail vote, the 2013 senior nominees were reduced to a final list of candidates. Today, five members of the Seniors Committee met at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton to discuss each of the senior finalists. A senior nominee is an individual whose career ended at least 25 years ago.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2013 will be formally enshrined during the Pro Football Hall of Fame Enshrinement Festival in Canton, Ohio next August.

Related Links:

Photo Galleries: Curley Culp | Dave Robinson
Senior nominees, all-time
Selection Process


Recent Comments
  • cosme - April 17 2014 04:12 AM

    Don: Unbelievable! Unbelieveable! I want to emphasize that Dave Robinson is deserving of entry into the Hall of Fame. Robinson was an integral part of a team that won five NFL championships in seven years. However, before Maxie Baughn? Before Joe Fortunado? Before Chuck Howley? Before Alex Karras? Before his team mate Jerry Kramer? I can appreciate the arguments of Robinson's enshrinement before Robert Brazile, Tommy Nobis, Andy Russell, Mike Curtis...even Lee Roy Jordan...but this fact is a slap in the face of us the fans. I note Curly Culp's teammate, Willie Lanier, is also a member ofthe Hall of Fame trustees. Again, I am not denigrating Curly Culp. Most people are not aware of the fact that he was every bit the defensive tackle that his contemporary, Joe Greene - the Hall of Fame tackle was; but to sneak Curly Culp ahead of Alex Karras who was a member of one of the great defensive lines in NFL history, and the dominating tackle of his era is an outrage. I am sure if Joe Schmidt, the Hall of Fame Middle linebacker for the Karras era Lions, were on the Board of Trustees he would have a thing or two to say about Karras NOT being in the Hall...and I do not want to hear about tired cliches that Karras gambled. Michael Irvin, when he was not snorting cocaine, was stabbing his team mates with scissors and almost killing them...no, this is an outrage! Deserving players are NOT being enshrined as the good ol' boys of the NFL take care of their buddies. What can the fans do to reform this problem?

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  • cosme - April 08 2014 07:50 AM

    Mark: Thank you for your kind words. I would be willing to speak to the powers that be in Canton, as a "voice" of the average fan, of "Joe Lunchpail" of the "man on the street" about reform in the selection process. I have ambivalent feelings toward Peter King. I read yesterday his tired, trite, smug justifications for Jerry Kramer NOT being selected. Basically what King argued is if Jerry Kramer was not good enough for Tex Maule, Paul Zimmerman and Bob Oates (prominent sportswriters and selectors "back in the day"), he is not good enough for him. Really???!!! Peter King's self-righteous, school Marm "tsk! tsk!" dissing of me and thousands of other fans is insulting! He abdicates his responsibility to study the Hall worthiness of senior players as he worships at the shrine of sportswriters of yesteryear!!! Canton IS NOT about Bob Oates and Paul Zimmerman - as much as sportswriters - in their natural human egotism and vanity would have us believe. There is no football without us! The folks on the street - who remember - want - Jerry Kramer in the Hall of Fame! Oh, I can see Peter King smile condescendingly in his McMansion as he sips his chardonnay and considers the unwashed comments of fans who cannot punctuate, write or spell as he can or Bob Oates could (Bob Oates could WRITE!!!) and dismisses our anger as the ravings of the beer swilling proletariat who do not know a thing about football. Do not patronize me, Peter King!!! Do not worship at the throne of Paul Zimmerman around me! Do your due diligence! Do the right thing! Put Jerry Kramer into the Hall of Fame and stop kissing Bob Oates derrier! In other words, Peter King, BE A MAN! Think for a moment that Jim Tyrer, the ten time pro bowl tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs, deserves enshrinement for his play and the fact that he killed his wife and children and himself, though a terrible tragedy, perhaps had something to do with the head injuries he received on the football field and it is time to do the right thing by not only him, but his fans. Tragedies are not just about the most recent ones in the headlines, such as Junior Seau - there are others. Time heals. Gain a perspective. Do the right thing! Put Jim Tyrer into the Hall of Fame! Or how about Jack Tatum? No one but no one hit like Jack Tatum. Not Dick Butkus. Not Lawrence Taylor. Not Ronnie Lot. NO ONE!!! (Ask George Atkinson if you do not believe me). But Jack Tatum not only played for the "bad boy" Raiders of the 1970's, he put paralyzed Daryl Stingley for life with a perfectly legal and clean hit - a hit for which he never apologized. Yet, the smug, prissy pedants in the press NEVER forgave Jack Tatum for that - and as a result, the greatest hitter in NFL history is not in the Hall. And why? Because smug, prissy pedants in the press corps bow and scrape to the politically correct judgments of their equally smug, prissy, pedantic ancestors in the press corps. On the otherhand, Peter King DID his job and disclosed that Bart Starr - WHO KNOWS better than I - believes Bob Skoronski, Starr's left tackle, should be in the Hall of Fame and consistently graded out at a level similar to Forrest Gregg. In disclosing this vignette - which I did not know - and could not know - Peter King IS doing his job - and doing it well. In summary, Mark, the Canton selection process IS NOT about sportswriters maintaining a marble statue reverence of their predecessors, their choices and their perspectives. It is about professional football PLAYERS and the fans whom those players inspired...which brings us to another issue. Why aren't CFL players in the Professional Football Hall of Fame? Canton is not the NFL Hall of Fame - though Mac Speedie, and the bulk of his Hall Worthy career in the AAFC - might tell us that we are wrong.

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  • cosme - April 08 2014 04:44 AM

    Mark: It is less that I am a fan of Jerry Kramer, and more that I believe in justice. This is an unfair world. Even if reforms are made in the selection process, deserving players will never be recongnized. I do believe that the "twenty year rule" is arbitrary and capricious and is one which should be tossed away. Excellence is excellence, players which touched my soul - and other fan's soul - need to be recognized; but it is unjust that the Jerry Kramers, the Chuck Howleys, the Otis Taylors, the Drew Pearsons the Randy Gradishars - and others - suffer the indignity of being ignored year after year because of a silly rule which glorifies gratifying the immediate and the NOW in this life - which means players of the contemporary era - the heroes of the recent. The classic movie "Shane" could never have been made in this era - the slow build up to the mythic confrontation in that gloomy saloon plastered against that brooding Wyoming, Teton mountain sky against Jack Palance. Why? Audiences demand immediate gratification. The post modern age is one of immediate video game carnage and destruction. This neurosis, this inability to defer immediate gratification, is reflected in the rules governing the election of football greats. How many people today realize that Lawrence Taylor, for all his brilliance, NEVER dominated a Super Bowl as Chuck Howley did, not once, but twice! How many people remember Larry Czonka commenting in disbelief that Chuck Howley made an interception in Super Bowl VI that was an impossibility because Howley had been blocked and was on the ground...yet, Howley jumped off that ground and snatched a Bob Griese pass with a speed and alacrity that Czonka did not believe was humanly possible? HOW MANY? I am a rapidly aging Baby Boomer...but I remember. I now I learn that the Board of Trustees of the Pro Football Hall of Fame are headed by Dave Robinson, and Curly Culp's middle linebacker, Willie Lanier, and the Pro Football Hall of Fame expects fans such as I to ignore these insults to my memories, my treasured past? The Pro Football Hall of Fame should be ashamed!!! Again, this not about Dave Robinson and Curly Culp, both of whom deserve to be in the Hall! It is about a selection process which glorifies the immediate and NOW. It is about a selection process that glorifies the inflated statistics of wide receivers of the post 1978 era - statistics that are as inflated as our money. Babe Ruth made $50,000.00 a year in 1928. Forty years later, Willie Mays made $100,000.00 a year. Forty years later (2008) what was a star baseball player making on the average a year - say A-Rod? $25,000,000.00 a year? Who in their right mind will argue that A-Rod was over twenty times the player Willie Mays was? Or 40 times the player Babe Ruth was? Yet, A-Rod is being paid as if he were. Even adjusting for inflation, the implication is still the same: the immediate, the now, the player which gratifies our immediate nerve endings is the player we consider. This metaphor extrapolated to football, the Hall of Fame selection committee wishes me to believe that the Andre Reeds, the Cris Carters, the Tim Browns are deserving of todays immediate consideration over the Mac Speedies, the Del Shofners, the Drew Pearsons, the Otis Taylors, the Cliff Branchs of yesteryear. Well, I watched Drew Pearson block for Tony Dorsett on Dorsett's 99 yard touchdown run. I watched Drew Pearson score against the Los Angeles Rams in the 1973 playoffs from over 80 yards away as the Rams were taking charge of the game; I watched Pearson catch touchdowns from Danny White during the 1980 divisional playoff game against the Falcons to seal the victory. I watched Drew Pearson catch a pass from Danny White in the 1982 NFC championship game against the 49ers - and were it not for a desperate finger tip grab from Eric Wright, Pearson would have scored, rendering "the catch" a forgotten moment. I do not even need to bring up the details of the Thanksgiving game of 1974 with Clint Longley - or the Hail Mary pass from Staubach during the 1975 divisional playoff game against Minnesota - a game which FOREVER changed the vocabulary of football announcers and last second desperation passes. Everyone is aware of the Hail Mary...and yet, Canton has the impudence to say to me - say to the fans of professional football - Drew Pearson - who will forever live in my heart as a young man making spectacular play after play is an "old timer" and not deserving of consideration because the flavor of the month is Cris Carter? How dare Canton insult me and other fans this way!!!! How dare they!!! How dare they treat the fans as if we are ignorant after thoughts!!! No! The Professional Football Hall of Fame should be ASHAMED - and not just for Jerry Kramer or Drew Pearson or Chuck Howley! ASHAMED! The good ol' boy machinations of the "Old Timers" Committee is disgusting...and don't ever tell me that Drew Pearson, Otis Taylor, Jerry Kramer, and Mike Curtis et. al. are "old timers." They will forever remain young, graceful athletes - in my heart - for as long as this "ol timer" lives.

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  • Cosme - April 07 2014 03:01 AM

    The "Fourth Estate," the press, plays a valuable, indeed, sacred role in American society. The press acts as the messengers to the people - and as we are a society, are a nation, "of the people, for the people, by the people" the role of the press is so important, its place in our society is validated in the constitution of this great nation and its Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, the Press, in its arrogance and hubris, forgets its role as "messenger' and presumes to be the "Message." In 1968, the American military annihilated the North Viet Nam armies and the Viet Cong during the Tet offensive. Walter Cronkite, however, forgetting his role as "messenger" and presuming to use his trustworthiness and credibility amongst millions of gullible Americans, declared the Viet Nam war unwinable. A significant portion of the American nation swallowed this myth, and, as a proximate result of Cronkite's prejudices, political leanings and hubris, North Viet Nam was given time to regroup, rearm and resume its attacks against South Viet Nam. Millions upon millions of people suffered genocide and communist tyranny as a result. I mention these FACTS in this commentary section of the Pro Football Hall of Fame because sportswriters all aspire to be the sports version of Walter Cronkite. They want to be the "message" rather than the messenger. In their hubris, sports writers condescend to tell us, the American public, who is Canton worthy and who is not. THAT IS NOT THEIR ROLE! Are members of the press entitled to their own subjective opinions about the Hall worthiness of candidates. Of course. But the Press needs to realize that they do not represent just themselves. They speak for the people of this great nation. Football is an intensely important part of American culture. Is it as important as international affairs and matters of war and peace? No. But does professional football reflect the values, the aspirations, the secret longings of every day Americans? Yes. Someone, somewhere, somehow needs to tell the Peter Kings of this world that the Fourth Estate is not the "end all", particularly when the press abandons its legitimate role as "messenger" and presumes to become the message. Walter Cronkite, in his paternalistic presumptions, made that mistake - to the horrific cost of not just Americans, (and their sacrifices) but to people all over this world. The press represents - not the opinions of Bob Oates and his colleagues from thirty or forty years ago - but the will of the people. Even Walter Cronkite got it wrong - as any critical observor and thinker MUST conclude as it studies the course and history of the Viet Nam War. Extrapolated to professional football, the wannabe Walter Crokites of the sports world are getting it wrong as to the Jerry Kramers of Professional Football History.

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  • cosme - April 05 2014 09:05 AM

    Jeff: It is disgraceful that Otis Taylor will not be inducted in the Hall of Fame this year, and either (or all?) Andre Reed, Tim Brown or Cris Carter will probably be inducted - particularly when I consider had Reed, Brown or Carter been playing in 1971 - under 1971 rules - their statistics would not have approached what Otis Taylor accomplished that year. Mel Blount mugged receivers from the moment the ball was centered until the moment it arrived anywhere near them...had Blount not mugged Percy Howard the second to the last pass Staubach threw in Super Bowl X, the legend of Roger Staubach would transcend that of Unitas or Montana...so when I grit my teeth this year as sportswriters divorced from reality consider the merits of Reed, Brown or Carter, and Otis Taylor slowly dies, forgotten and unknown, that grinding sound you will hear will be not only from me, but from thousands upon thousands of old time NFL observors seeing injutice pile upon injustice.

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  • Cosme - April 01 2014 03:38 AM

    Ramfan21: Your arguments concerning Ed Meador are cogent and exactly on point. Ed Meador should be in the Hall of Fame. However, the members of the Hall of Fame Selection committee would say to you that there is NOTHING they can to do rectify this injustice because the Hall of Fame voters during his twenty year period of eligibility (who witnessed his play) did not see his Hall worthiness and therefore neither should they - unless, that is, Canton decides to put him on the Seniors committee. This pathetic,smug, self-righteous "thinking" reminds me of a conversation between Henry Kissinger and Chou En Lai in 1972 as Nixon "opened' the door to China. Kissinger, at a dinner party, asked Chou En Lai what he thought about the French Revolution (which occurred in 1789). Chou En Lai's answer? "I do not know...it is too soon to tell." This answer astounded Kissinger and the Americans listening to the conversation as 183 years had gone by - an eon of time in American culture with all its "instant" cakes; coffee and express highways - but was a mere hiccup in terms of Chinese culture and time. My point in sharing this story is this: often times observors of current events are not good judges of the significance of an act, a man, an epoch. Time needs to elapse before one can authentically judge the contributions and significance of an Ed Meador to professional football. Yet, the superficial pedants of the NFL Hall of Fame committee pompously intone, "Well, if Ed Meador was not good enough for Tex Maule in 1976 to be inducted into Canton, Ed Meador cannot be good enough for me!" What a disturbingly lack of judgment, of common sense - what a shocking abdication of responsibility to the history of the game - and to the hearts of fans who thrilled at the domination of the "Fearsome Foursome" and the George Allen defenses of his era - of which Ed Meador was an integral and significant part. I think of Walt Sweeney, the nine time pro bowl guard of San Diego Chargers. How possibly could Walt Sweeney NOT be in the Hall of Fame? How do the HOF voters think John Hadl had the time to take a seven step drop and hit Lance Alworth for an 85 yard touchdown bomb? By magic? That Lance Alworth became a Hall of Famer simply because he bounded through defenses like a deer, and "Bambi" caught all his balls and touchdowns by the sheer skill and beauty of his routes? Has ANYONE taken the time to THINK that perhaps Walt Sweeney had as much to do with Lance Alworth becoming a Hall of Famer as Alworth's grace at running pass patterns? Or Big Daddy Lipscomb. The prototype of the modern defensive tackle, one of the first dominating African American defensive tackles in football history - dealing with all the bigotry and prejudice of his era - and yet, quicker than a cat at 300 pounds of lean muscle, was TWICE the defensive MVP at the Pro Bowl - whose life ended tragically of a heroine overdose. I could make a compelling argument that Big Daddy Lipscomb was a professional football Jackie Robinson and deserving of a bust in Canton - for not only his play, but the pioneering significance of his game. Could sports writers see these facts, these arguments during Big Daddy's era? Or were they wrapped up in the fact of his heroine overdose, the fact that as a big, scary (n-word) he bore a superficially too close resemblance to Sonny Liston, the scariest (n-word) of the day? Never mind the fact that Big Daddy Lipsoomb was a gentle giant; never mind the fact that he possibly never made as many pro bowls as his lilly white counterparts because his game was not "three yards and a cloud of dust," but speed, agility, power and grace. Do we take the time some fifty years after Big Daddy's death and consider his impact upon professional football from a Chou En Lai perspective, or do we simply discard Eugene "Big Daddy Lipscomb" as someone not good enough for (what was the name of the famous Los Angeles Times sports writer...in my old age, I am growing forgetful), he is not good enough for us? Or do we ask Jim Brown, while he is still alive, "Jim! Should Big Daddy Lipscomb have a bust in Canton?" Or how about Lenny Moore. What do you think he would say? Or how about any fan (black or white) old enough to remember those Colt powerhouses of the late 1950's and early sixties. What do you think they would say about Big Daddy's Hall of Fame credentials? I hope I have made my point during these several e-mails. The Hall of Fame selection process is hopelessly inadequate - and risks alienating the very fans which have made the NFL what it is today. The selection process is hurting not only the hearts of the fans, but the very aging and dying players themselves. IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE!

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  • Cosme - March 28 2014 04:02 PM

    Let us analyze the arguments given by HOF selectors as to why Jerry Kramer should not be a member of the Hall of Fame: (1) There are too many Lombardi era Packers in the Hall. Is this valid? Transcendent excellence is excellence no matter how many of one's teammates achieved the standard. The Lombardi Packers played in six NFL championships in eight years, winning five in seven years. Who are the transcendent Packers who played in all six championship games? Not Herb Adderley. Not Dave Robinson. Not Fuzzy Thurston. Not Jim Ringo. Not Jim Taylor. Not Paul Hornung. Bart Starr did. Boyd Dowler did. Forrest Gregg did. Willie Davis did. Ray Nitzsche did. Henry Jordan did...and SO DID JERRY KRAMER! Is there something missing from this picture? Yes! Kramer is not in the Hall! (2) Jerry Kramer was a profligate self-promoter who advertized himself beyond his accomplishments. What are the facts? Kramer agreed with Dick Schaap, prior to the 1967 season to write a diary of the season. In other words, Kramer was going to write Instant Replay before knowing the Ice Bowl was going to occur and Starr would score with less than 16 seconds left to play to win a third straight NFL championship. How is this "self-promotion." (3) Jerry Kramer was overrated. The most famous block thrown in NFL History (Starr's quarterback sneak in the Ice Bowl) was actually a Ken Bowman double team with Kramer against Jethro Pugh, desperately digging his cleats into the ice to gain traction. Ken Bowman deserves as much praise as Kramer, and should have received it except for Kramer's disgusting self-promotion. (See argument 2 above). It is true Ken Bowman deserves recognition. Furthermore, Ken Bowman went on to have a very successful and strong NFL career. However, does Bowman's double team negate the fact that Pugh was Kramer's primary man on the play? Does it negate the fact that a strong argument could be made that Kramer should have been the MVP of the 1962 championship game? Does it negate the fact that Lombardi called Kramer the finest guard of his era? That the Hall of Fame Committee in 1969 selected Kramer as the all time guard for the 50 year team? Does it negate the fact that Kramer was a consistent pro bowl performer and the key to the foundation of the Packer offense, the Green Bay sweep? Does it negate the fact that his block enabled Vince Lombardi to accomplish what George Halas never did; what Don Shula could not do in 1974 against Ken Stabler's Raiders? what Chuck Noll could not do with an aging Steelers team in 1980? What the 49ers of Montana could not do against Bill Parcell's Giants in the 1990 NFC championship game; what Jimmy Johnson was too tired (and afraid) to try to accomplish with the 1990's Cowboys? And that being to WIN a third straight NFL championship...but not just any championship...a championship won by aging but proud veterans, in vicious polar conditions, of which Kramer was a mainstay. Kramer and Bowman's block transported Vince Lombardi beyond the realms of the Landrys; the Shulas; the Nolls; the Halas's - legends all. The Kramer block carried Lombardi to the realm of myth, AND JERRY KRAMER IS NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME????? PUHLEEEZZZZZE! Hall of Fame veterans committee! Get off your butts and do the right thing! PUT JERRY KRAMER INTO THE HALL OF FAME!!!!!

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  • cosme - March 24 2014 05:01 PM

    I really do hope the Hall of Fame, and those associated with the selection process, studies each and every one of these e-mails. The selection process is not working. There is a significant backwash of deserving players who are not being enshrined because of insider politics and/or ignorance of sports writers not old enough to know the IMPACT the Jerry Kramers, the Alex Karras's, the Mac Speedies,the Dick Stanfels, the Del Shofners,the Ralph Neely's, the Dick Schafraths, the Chuck Howleys made, not only on the gridiron, but in the hearts of fans. Nate, I might add that your perceptive comments concerning Jerry Kramers success as a writer ("Instant Replay" is arguably the greatest book on professional football EVER written) has hurt his induction because it has created a spirit of jealousy and envy amongst sports writers. I remember copies of "Instant Replay" being sold and packaged in super markets with razors - that was how omnipresent "Instant Replay" was in the late 1960's. The irony is that the success of Instant Replay is even MORE reason for Jerry Kramer's enshrinement for what his writing did to contribute to the popularity of professional football. How can Jerry Jones be a member of the Board of Trustees for the Professional Football Hall of Fame when John Niland or Gil Brandt are not members of the Cowboy Ring of Honor? He apparently does not understand the history of the contributions of players or contributors on the very team he owns. If reforms are not made, Canton will continue to lose credibility. The Hall of Fame was not built to honor the "holier than thou" prejudices of writers such as Paul Zimmerman who actively campaigned against Alex Karras or Ken Stabler's inductions. Canton was built to honor the players whose contributions and play on the gridiron thrilled the fans in the stands, the fans watching the game on fuzzy screened black and white televisions, the fans glued to the radio, thrilling to Chuck Howley's running down Leroy Kelly in the open field in the 1967 divisional playoffs; or watching Mac Speedie of the upstart Cleveland Browns catching a touchdown from Otto Graham in the opening game of the 1950 season against the NFL champions, Philadelphia Eagles; and why do I KNOW this statement to be true - because without us fans, there is NO NFL. Reform MUST be instituted if Canton is to retain credibility - and credibility of not only us fans, but credibility amongst NFL players themselves. Jim Brown once told Floyd Little, who despaired of ever entering the Hall, that the players know who is a Hall of Famer, whether they are inducted or not. Floyd Little is currently enshrined because of the unflagging efforts of one passionate fan. Hopefully, this exchange of e-mails when inspire changes in the selection process.

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  • Bob - February 06 2013 05:03 PM

    I agree with Joseph Sexton, Dick Schafrath dominant tackle for Browns and 2 NFL Finals, Baltimore 1964 and Green Bay 1965 as well as several playoff teams and blocking for 3 hall of famers, Jim Brown, Bobby Mitchell and Leroy Kelly SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame. Wake up selectors.

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  • Bob - February 02 2013 09:31 PM

    I want to give some senior loving to two great Browns of the past. Gary Collins WR. Who caught 3 TD. passes the last time the Browns won the NFL Championship back in 1964 and was an integral part of the great teams of the 1960's. Also Linebacker Clay Mathews who lead the Browns in career sacks and played on good Browns team's of the 1980's that went to the AFC Championship game several times.

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  • JDUNCAN - February 02 2013 08:42 PM

    With the number of deserving veteran candidates. The HOF should expand to five eligible each year and no less than three have to be selected.

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  • Dick Smith - January 12 2013 12:51 PM

    I want to know what the knock is on Jerry Kramer all-pro offense guard, voted to the best guard the first 50 years? Why isn't he in the HOF especially now after Robinson is voted in? I think it's a travesty that he has been over looked from the Lombardi era.

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  • Peaver - January 02 2013 12:59 PM

    Jerry Kramer, Chuck Howely, Otis Taylor. I agree with the main sentiment being expressed here. Get these 3 guys in the HALL. My other top nominee....Gino Cappelletti!!!!!!!!! This guy played both ways, sometimes. He was the Patriots' 1st Troy Brown. He still owns Pro Football records!! 50 years down the pike. He would start in the slot for Belichick's team today, were he 20 again. Name some else who could force Welker to the bench....

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  • Chip - January 02 2013 12:52 PM

    How can Tommy Nobis not be on the list? Here's a guy who's on the 1960's All Decade Team, Rookie of the year in 1966 and 5 time pro bowl.

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  • Tom Stokes - January 01 2013 09:21 PM

    Drew Pearson should be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Why do you keep passing him by?

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  • Marvin - December 10 2012 08:30 PM

    Jerry Kramer, one of "The Immortals", best of the first fifty years of Football, all of whom are in the Hall of Fame, but him. He will never be elected, not because of his skill or talent, which was the best, but because of pure jealousy on the part of the selection committee (sports writers). He did something that they would give their front row seat in hell for. He wrote a "best seller", not only that, he did it again. Everyone knows that he belongs in the HOF, but the egotistical, jealous jerks on the selection committee will not be honest. They all should be fired.

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  • bachslunch - November 29 2012 08:56 AM

    Re Tommy Nobis -- what arguably derailed his career even more than playing in Atlanta were injuries. One other point here: the HoF from this time period comparatively has a lot of MLBs and relatively few OLBs -- and Nobis was the former. I'd prefer to see more deserving OLBs of the time get in first such as Chuck Howley and Maxie Baughan and Joe Fortunato and Larry Grantham (all of whom I think are every bit as deserving as Dave Robinson and arguably more so). I can see an argument that Nobis and Lee Roy Jordan are the most HoF deserving MLBs from the time still not in, though.

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  • Mike Terres - November 25 2012 09:48 AM

    Both great players. But the issue that needs to be addressed is that there are so many more players that probably had better careers than those selected. The early era is under represented, because the Hall of Fame was established 43 years after the advent of the league. Every year, I want to do a plug for "The Human Howiter" Tony Latone. He is the NFL rushing leader of the 1920's decade who played for the Pottsville Maroons, deserving Worlds Champions of 1925. All those interested in the history of the NFL should read "Breaker Boys"- an ESPN book about that team. His statistics were not properly recorded, and he is therefore probably overlooked. The entire town of Pottsville would probably make the 5 hour trek to Canton. Jerry Kramer is definitely the most deserving of the Super Bowl era. It is also time to recognize Tommy Nobis, who if been on a non-expansion team, would have had better recognition. He is probably the most instinctive linebacker in history- again, due to lack of recording statistics probably has the highest average tackles per game played in history. SO MANY more modern era players deserving more than many of the senior nominees of the past. Reed, Brown, and Carter should not be punished just because of their position. HERE IS MY IDEA, SELECTORS. For 2014, there should be a special veterans vote- similar to the very first class- no regulations on the amount to be voted in. All contributors should be in this selection process, therefore leaving the modern selection available to just players and coaches. Every 10 years (2024, 34, so on), there will be another veterans selection, same process as in 2014.

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  • bachslunch - November 12 2012 01:36 PM

    Chris, what surprises me most is that you didn't even mention two of the three Cowboy Senior-eligibles who likely have the best argument for HoF consideration -- besides Chuck Howley (postseason honors of 5[5AP]/6/none), both Cliff Harris at 4(3AP)/6/70s and Drew Pearson (every bit the equal in stats of 70s WR snubs like Cliff Branch and Harold Jackson and Harold Carmichael) are the two most puzzling omissions. I could even potentially see some sort of case for Cornell Green at 4(3AP)/5/none and John Niland at 3(2AP)/6/none, but not really for Harvey Martin at 1(1AP)/4/70s or Charlie Waters at 2(0AP)/3/none or Everson Walls at 3(1AP)/4/none. And of the other Seniors you mentioned only Cliff Branch and maybe Lester Hayes strike me as having a reasonable HoF argument -- I don't see a good case for the rest, particularly not Jim Marshall.

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  • Chris - November 09 2012 05:52 AM

    I was watching a video recently on Tony Dorsett and a media member commented on how the Cowboys had been slighted by the Hall of Fame. I researched and after finding the number of Cowboys (especially Landry-era Cowboys) that are not in the Hall, I can just think of one word--DEPLORABLE. How are Charlie Waters, Everson Walls, John Niland, Harvey Martin, Cornell Green, Chuck Howley, etc. not in the HOF and most have not even made the preliminary list?? (Or if they have, they made it less than a handful of times). It just makes no sense how the GREAT players from 30-plus years ago are completely forgotten and unrecognized by voters. And this is a lifelong NY Giants fan speaking who LOATHES the Cowboys. That's to say nothing of players like Cliff Branch, Dave Dalby, Lester Hayes, Snake Stabler, Jim Marshall, Chuck Foreman and others. I'm so thrilled that Dave Robinson and Curly Culp are on the list because they should've BEEN in the Hall 20 years ago. But the HOF voting system MUST change, at least temporarily. There's such a back log of players now categorized as "senior nominees" that deserve HOF enshrinement that they must get in. These players were the best of their era and deserve HOF recognition while they're still with us on this earth. If the NFL can amend its current rules to where its making defense almost null and void, it can amend its HOF enshrinement rules (at least for a few years) so that these greats from an era gone by get their due recognition

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  • bachslunch - October 18 2012 10:11 AM

    Cosme, a couple things. While I agree that the NFL seems to hold surprisingly small value in its history and historic figures, I don't think this means we should hold back modern-era deserving HoF eligibles before getting in deserving Seniors who played the same position. No question for example that the HoF voters traditionally short-change WRs (and there are several such deserving Seniors, including but not necessarily limited to Mac Speedie, Billy Howton, Billy Wilson, Del Shofner, Harold Jackson, Harold Carmichael, Drew Pearson, and Cliff Branch), but denying Cris Carter, Tim Brown, and Andre Reed before these Seniors get elected only makes the problem worse. I say don't repeat the same mistakes made before -- get Carter and the rest in rather than clog up the Senior pool further. Re the whole "Fourth Estate" issue -- this not being the appropriate forum, I'll just say I don't share your view on the Vietnam War and leave it at that. But it's not "hubris" that makes sportswriters decide the worth of HoF nominees -- for those on the selection committee, it's in fact their job as mandated by the the Hall itself. One hopes they're highly informed in making their decisions, though I'm not always convinced of that -- for every astute election of players like Roger Wehrli and Rickey Jackson and Andre Tippett, they also vote in folks like Fred Dean and Floyd Little and Dick LeBeau while refusing players such as Claude Humphrey and Dick Stanfel and Randy Gradishar. And it's ironic to mention Paul Zimmerman as a particular problem here (he likely isn't actively on the committee since his stroke), as he's arguably the most accomplished film study exponent the HoF committee has ever had and one of its most knowledgeable on NFL history (for proof of the latter, see his championing of candidates as diverse as assistant coach Clark Shaughnessy and punter Tommy Davis). That doesn't always make him right, of course, but he certainly wasn't ignorant or lacking in evaluation skills.

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  • bachslunch - October 18 2012 08:30 AM

    Re Jerry Kramer. First, will say that I think he belongs in the HoF. Why he isn't is an interesting (possibly unique) case, and the reasons voters have passed on him may include his making only 3 pro bowls (despite being a 5 time 1st team all pro), his having missed half of 1961 and most all of 1964 due to injury (making his career shorter than one might expect), his authorship of the tell-all book “Instant Replay” and lack of shyness about general self-promotion, his inclusion in an all first 50 years of the NFL team roundly criticized by insiders as a botch job, and the perception among some HoF voters that he was no better a player on his own team at his own position than Fuzzy Thurston and Gale Gillingham (which suggests an issue for some who have done film study). I'm also worried that even if he's Senior nominated again, he may not make it in -- Dick Stanfel is actually not a bad comparison for Kramer (on a number of championship teams, relatively short career marred by injury, a similar honors profile of 5(5AP)/4/50s, plays a position which is short-changed for his time), and he has been (I think very wrongly) refused twice now as a Senior. Sorry to say, HoF voter Peter King is on record as saying that Kramer has been refused 9 times as a finalist, wondering aloud why his case would have improved since his last non-election (which of course ignores the fact that other deserving players such as Carl Eller, Willie Wood, and Tom Mack were finalists even more times before getting in). Again, I think Kramer should have been elected long ago.

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  • bachslunch - October 17 2012 02:27 PM

    Lots of stuff, and will start with two thoughts. Myron, there are very good reasons why Jim Marshall does not have a good HoF argument. His postseason honors are terrible -- zero 1st team all pro selections, 2 pro bowls, zero all-decade team selections. No lineman from the 50s on has a postseason profile that skimpy. He was for most of his career the second best DE and third best DL on his own team (behind Carl Eller and Alan Page, both HoF deserving). The Viking to push for here is Mick Tingelhoff, who is not in despite 7 1st team all pro choices and 6 pro bowls. Cosme, lots of good things from you, but I have a big problem with people betting on NFL games and getting into the HoF, ehich is why I think it's a problem re Alex Karras. Unlike baseball, the PFHoF does not have a "character clause," but they also say to consider only what the player did on the field -- and there's no question betting on games could potentially compromise someone's quality of play. I think Paul Hornung's membership in the HoF is a problem as well, and for the same reason -- not to mention QBs like Bobby Layne who reportedly threw games and shaved points during their playing days.

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  • bachslunch - October 17 2012 02:15 PM

    There are plenty of injustices about the Senior nominations, but for me, one of the worst is the continued unwillingness of the committee to seriously consider the handful of deserving Seniors still snubbed from the 20s, 30s, and 40s -- specifically Lavvie Dilweg, Al Wistert, Duke Slater, Verne Lewellen, Riley Mathesion, and Ox Emerson.

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  • bachslunch - October 17 2012 02:04 PM

    Not the worst Senior nominees that could have been put forth (they're certainly better then the likes of Marshall Goldberg, Emmitt Thomas, Floyd Little, and Dick LeBeau), and I can potentially see some level of HoF argument for both Culp and Robinson. But it's hard to understand why either of them should be pushed to the head of the line ahead of many other players. Re Culp: his postseason profile of 1(1AP)/6/none is actually relatively comparable to the worst Senior DT snubs out there, such as Houston Antwine at 4(1AP)/6/allAFL and Tom Sestak at 4(3AP)/4/allAFL (short career) and Roger Brown at 2(2AP)/6/none (not a fan of Alex Karras at 4(3AP)/4/60s because of his gambling suspension) — plus there are those who will claim him to be the first nose tackle, with that supposedly being historically meaningful. Whether any of them should be HoF-ers is of course another question — I’m not sure DT is a criminally under-represented HoF position, myself. Re Robinson: his profile of 3(1AP)/3/60s is thin compared to Chuck Howley, Maxie Baughan, Joe Fortunato, Larry Grantham, and Robert Brazile, though he reportedly looks impressive via film study. His being on the all-60s team probably helped get him this far. OLBs from this time are criminally under-represented from the 50s-70s, but I wouldn't have picked Robinson over the others named.

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  • cosme - September 07 2012 07:03 PM

    And if I may expand on my comment below, football history establishes that Drew Pearson was directly involved in several of the great plays EVER made in the NFL: the 83 yard touchdown bomb from Staubach in the 4th corner to turn back a surging Rams team in the 1973 divisional playoffs; the 1974 Clint Longley Thanksgiving bomb to beat the Redskins (after Dave Robinson knocked out Roger Staubach); the 1975 Hail Mary last second bomb to beat the Vikings - or even the 4th down catch for a first down two plays prior to keep the Cowboys in that very game, setting up the more famous Hail Mary; Pearson's furiously blocking for Tony Dorsett on Dorsett's 99 yard touchdown run; Eric Wright's fingernail tackle of Pearson in the 1982 championship game - (which did more to secure victory against the Cowboys than "The Catch," but such is the power of the press to twist memories. In other words, the history of professional football cannot be discussed without SEVERAL references to Drew Pearson - who was involved in some of the great plays in NFL history. Cris Carter had amazing hands - perhaps the best in NFL history - and scored touchdowns like few others ever have; but it Cris Carter is NOT remembered for any particularly clutch or otherwise memorable moment - it is his VOLUME of production, combined with his fantastic ability to catch the ball that we remember. Well, if that is the criteria, Drew Pearson's volume of production FOR HIS ERA was fantastic as well, and, moreover, had two very good hands himself. Therefore, it seem ludicrous to me that we are going to debate whether Cris Carter should enter the Hall of Fame this year when the debate should actually be whether Cris Carter should enter the Hall - not before Andre Reed or Tim Brown - but before Drew Pearson

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  • cosme - September 06 2012 06:11 PM

    Kit: I apologize to you and any Cris Carter fans. Cris Carter deserves to be in the Hall of Fame - and should be in the Hall of Fame. My point is that Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch, Otis Taylor and Boyd Dowler, players from another era - and who have waited longer - should be in the Hall of Fame BEFORE Carter - that Cris Carter is "the flavor of the month" when compared to other deserving players whose careers spanned the 1950's, 60's and 70'. (Or, in Mac Speedie's case, the 1940's). So again, please forgive me if I appear to be denigrating Cris Carter. I am not. What I am denigrating is a selection process which worships the "new and recent" over the more substantial and accurate perspective of history and time.

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  • Kit - September 06 2012 01:04 AM

    I also feel like calling Cris Carter a flavor of the month is tremendously off-base, he deserved to be in the first time of asking. At the same time though, there is no one recently inducted that I would like to remove to put him in. I also dislike that this comment system doesn't recognize paragraph breaks. What the heck, Hall of Fame, some of us want our thoughts to be presented nicely.

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  • Kit - September 06 2012 12:55 AM

    Really enjoyed reading these comments. Cosme, if Peter King really said that abhorrent phrase about the seniors committe, that is disgraceful, and Paul Zimmerman would have agreed. Dr Z. always voted for whoever the seniors candidate was out of respect for the people who had done so much to narrow the ballot down. Zimmerman was one of my favorite football writers, and King is easily my least favorite, so I guess admiration doesn't translate into skill. That said, I don't really like the suggestion of expanding the seniors pool at the expense of modern candidates. The five-year rule has been the standard for every sports hall of fame, and while I understand the frustration for fans of these old players (I would sign any petition you put in front of me for Branch, Taylor, Kramer, Tatum, et al) but the modern players who get passed up are the seniors candidates of tomorrow, and punishing them for the oversights of previous voting committees doesn't really solve anything. There is never going to be a shortage of deserving players; there are too many great players to play this game for that to ever happen. There will never, in my opinion, be a reason to have less than a maximum induction class into the Hall of Fame. That's why the baseball hall of fame, with its charlatan gatekeeper mentality, sometimes not electing anyone at all, absolutely infuriates me. Say whatever you like about the Pro Football HOF, at least it's not Cooperstown.

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 29 2012 12:19 AM

    Will and Cosme I have learned a lot from your postings. The greatest thing is there are a lot of us fans who want so much the proper respect and the true honor of being elected into the HOF for the players that made the NFL what it is today. I am sure not all of the player we believe will be in the HOF some day but when just one or two finely receives the vote and the call that they are a member of the HOF now...... we will feel we helped a little. Again thanks to all who thought,wrote, and posted their ideas and feelings.

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  • Will - August 28 2012 09:32 PM

    A lot has been said the past few days. I'm going to bow out gracefully by saying that I hope some of our innovative and positive ideas will be seriously considered by any HOF Selection Process Committee members or HOF personnel. I don't envy the job of the Seniors Committee or the entire Selection Committee; I know there must be factors and criteria for their selections that we "common fans" don't realize, and I'm sure they must sometimes feel they can never win when they make their decisions. But, many good points were raised by intelligent, conscientious fans that help tremendously if implemented. Good luck to all and let's hope our ideas reach open ears and open minds. Thanks to all of you who put your passions into action and don't stop your efforts.

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  • True Buckeye - August 28 2012 02:13 AM

    Sorry for my Typo Dave Robinson was selected the All Decade Team of the 1960's

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  • True Buckeye - August 28 2012 02:11 AM

    I agree there are many strong cases to be made for various players, and I agree with most of the players mentioned are worthy of nomination however there can only be two a year. Yes the selection committee for the most part are a bunch of pencil pushing MORONS who most likely never strapped on a helmet and wouldn't know a good football player from a peanut vendor.

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  • True Buckeye - August 28 2012 02:05 AM

    Dave Robinson was was to the all Decade of the 1960's, His nomination has nothing to do with being on the board of trustees. If you ask any player that played with or against Dave they will tell it's been a long time coming. Every senior has to wait his turn for nomination, prehaps if Jerry Kramer had not admitted to false starting on his famous block in the "Ice Bowl" he would already be in!

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 27 2012 11:21 PM

    Cosme you have way more knowledgeable than I do on all the great players of the 50's,60's and 70's. I am so impressed with your writing and knowledge of sports and the NFL. I sure hope our comments are read and especially your comments. I have been watching the HOF for many years and I have never seen so many comments by fans wanting a change and wanting the players of the earlier years to be given their proper place in the HOF. Thank you Cosme for your thoughts.

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  • RamFan21 - August 27 2012 09:25 PM

    After reading all these posts, I feel it necessary to promote the case for now 75-year-old Eddie Meador, the outstanding corner-turned-safety for the Los Angeles Rams for 12 full seasons ranging from 1959-1970. Meador helped transform the struggling Rams early in his career to an outstanding team under the direction of HOF coach George Allen and with HOFers Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, and Tom Mack. Meador was named the Defensive Captain of the Allen-built defense featuring the Fearsome Foursome. With Meador roaming the secondary, QB's had to decide whether to throw near the 6-time Pro Bowler or risk being sacked by the rush. Meador was named 1 of only 4 defensive backs to the NFL All-Decade Team of the 60's (the other 3 are in the HOF), was elected by the NFL players in 1970 to serve as the President of the NFLPA, was voted NFL Father of the Year in '67, won the Byron Whizzer White Award for service to the community, and still holds the Rams' Interception record to this day and ranks high among DB's all time. He returned kicks, punts, and held for every field goal and PAT. Allen said of Meador's retirement after 1970: "You can't replace an Eddie Meador; he's the best safety in pro football." It's not easy to find such a well-rounded player/person on and off the field. Other stats and accolades are listed on the website www.edmeador21.com, which was created by his children to honor their father. Let's hope that men such as the ones previously mentioned and Eddie Meador will someday get to enjoy for themselves the crowning achievement of an NFL HOF induction.

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  • Will - August 27 2012 04:59 PM

    Mark P & others: If Mr. Horrigan will read these posts, consider our passionate choices, and then see through it to the heart of the issue---which is to find a way to induct more men who are older Seniors---then we have a shot at making a difference in the process. The heart of the matter is that more Senior men who are HOF-worthy need to be inducted as soon as possible. If that happens, then people like Kramer, Taylor, Howley, Meador, Stabler, and others who are HOF-worthy and have waited 50 years WILL get in before it's too late for them. I just think the HOF should consider that these men played and gave all they had to a sport, their team(s), and a League....and for what??? So that their accomplishments could be recognized when they are gone or unable to understand their significance? What a tragedy! Let's not forget that these men played with suspension helmets, no concussion awareness or technology, primitive pads and practices, and for poverty-level money compared to today's pros. And for WHAT? For peanut pensions? For an occasional mention by a now-retired John Madden? The sports writers that saw their greatness first-hand have all passed away or have retired into obscurity. Who is going to be their voice of advocacy? Today's sports writers were probably little children at the time these men were playing; could they really understand as children how great these men were? I just think the time to act is now---during the 50th Anniversary is a PERFECT time for the HOF to partner with the NFL and bring back the Days of Glory and honor more of these men who helped make the NFL something that someone thought we should create a Hall of Fame for in the first place. If the HOF doesn't do something soon, there'll be none of us left to bring awareness to the spirit behind the stats and accomplishments of these men. They will simply be images and numbers on paper or on film, but no one will remember watching that game-clinching block, that season-changing interception, the leadership on the field, the humility of their personas, etc. Pictures and numbers can't capture those things; only the voices of those who witnessed them. Please, Mr. Horrigan, let's take this 50th Anniversary and use it to turn the tide. If the League is ever-evolving, shouldn't the Hall of Fame that goes with the League evolve as well?

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 27 2012 11:14 AM

    Cosme; I believe you are as big a fan of Jerry Kramer as I am. Your facts are a hundred per cent correct. I became a fan of Jerry Kramer while watching the championship game with the NY Giants where Kramer open holes for Taylor and Kicked three field goals and an extra point. In fact Dave Robinson said Kramer should have been the MVP of that game. The three players I looked up to the most was Jerry Kramer,Bob "Boomer" Brown and Bob Lilly. Bob Lilly got into the HOF with no problem Bob Brown got in but as a senior witch was way over due. I kept asking what about Jerry Kramer. I have called sports talk shows, written to every voter in the HOF and asked pro players and pro coaches why Jerry Kramer is not in the HOF. Of course the voters never replied but the answer I got from players and coaches was 'Jerry Kramer isn't in the HOF already?' what a shame this man is being denied the one last honor he deserves.

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 27 2012 09:28 AM

    Cosme, Will and all other concerned pro football fans the comments that have been made the past few days will be read by Joe Horrigan the director of the HOF, this was promised to me by a person who has been involved with the HOF for over 10 years and is a writer for the NFL. I just hope Joe Horrigen takes our comments to the board of directors and to all the staff of the HOF. Maybe now the HOF will understand the fans do know what they are talking about when it comes to who should be in the HOF and why players like Kramer, Taylor, Howley,Stabler and all the other past player that have been named by our written comments are way over due the honor of being in the HOF.

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  • Will - August 26 2012 10:14 PM

    ...and to add one last thought in hopes someone with clout will read...in recent years, we've seen the likes of Bullet Bob Hayes and Les Richter get inducted post-humously. While "better late than never" remains true, these men and others like them bled, worked, suffered, prevailed, and did all they could to be the best ---only to never experience the pinnacle of their achievements. I just can't help but think the HOF Committee(s) should strive to find a way to expedite the process of enshrining deserving men who are aging and ailing with each passing year (Yes, Jeff & Cosme, men like Otis Taylor). I don't know if it's about ratings, money, advertising, or what, but why does the HOF put in 5 guys each year who are merely in their 40's or MAYBE 50's, while men in their late 60's and 70's are fading fast and waiting long? It doesn't make sense to me. I just think, with the exception of obvious best-of-the-best HOFers, some Moderns would be willing to wait a little longer until their predecessors are rightfully enshrined. Like the BCS, there's not a perfect solution, but it seems like improving the situation is doable with some common sense and creative problem-solving. Somewhere, Bob Hayes and Les Richter and others may be rising to applaud your posts and efforts.

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  • Jeffrey Heuer - August 26 2012 07:28 PM

    Where the heck is Otis Taylor? The man has got Parkinson's and still hasnt ever made it in. Vote him in before its too late!

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  • Will - August 26 2012 02:07 PM

    Mark Pinheiro & Others: We all know we have our own personal biases toward players we believe should be in; that's human nature. BUT, one thing I think we all agree on is that too many deserving men from the Seniors Era cannot get inducted before they pass away or suffer mental effects from aging/concussions at the current rate of 1 or 2 per year. I've always wondered why more of them were not taken anyway. It seems to me that except for 1st-Year-Eligible/Obvious inductees, some guys could wait a little longer to get in---at least until the backlog of Seniors is caught up. I just feel the 50th Anniversary is a prime opportunity for the HOF to step up and make a change---even if it's just for one year. By taking 6, as I described in my previous post, the HOF could essentially get 3-years'-worth of Seniors inducted at one ceremony. That would certainly help catch things up a little. I wish someone could get the attention of the Powers-That-Be in Canton and see if this is possible. I know the ball must be rolling already for Modern finalists, but what a great potential for publicity to "stop the presses" and make a special announcement. Thanks, Mark, for your compliment. Hopefully, someone from the HOF will read our posts and glean something constructive from them.

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 26 2012 12:52 PM

    Will, you are a genius what a great idea I hope some one at the HOF reads all the comments that have posted the past few days. It would be great if some one at the HOF would at least reply to the comments so we the fans can know our thoughts are being read by the powers to be. If anyone gets a reply please let us fans know.

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  • Victor - August 25 2012 05:50 PM

    The process is corrupt. Could you imagine if Congressmen voted secretly and had lifetime appointments? Even Supreme Court members' final votes are public, complete with written explanations for their opinions, and with the option of impeachment available in extreme cases. Also, if these "representatives" are actually supposed to represent their cities, shouldn't fans have a say in choosing them?

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  • Will - August 25 2012 12:40 PM

    50 years old. The HOF will be 50 years old in August '13. Why in the world is the HOF not taking this WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY to celebrate their 50th Anniversary by doing SOMETHING DIFFERENT...that would help so many players and fans??? For the sake of doing what's right and humane--- take 6 guys who played 50 years ago and have been out 50 years now and induct them. Take 1 first-ballot-caliber Modern with them to round out the "7"; that man will be honored to be a part of that group, and the fans will love it. The 6 seniors could actually get inducted BEFORE THEY PASS AWAY (Post-humous awards don't do much for those who earned them) and all fans would sense the aura of the induction. The committee could take 3 offensive players (i.e. Kramer? Brodie? Guy?) and 3 defensive players (i.e. Howley? Meador? Marshall?)---some of whom were NFL ALL-DECADE OF THE 60's (50 years ago). This is a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY for the HOF to do something special on their SILVER ANNIVERSARY! Not only that, but it would help deserving and aging men get in, satisfy fans of all ages who would understand the significance, and it would create a special induction for the 50th. I'm telling you, if I were the marketing director of the HOF, I'd be all over this all season long---selling this to NFL Nation and getting the fans involved in the voting. (JCP could even chime in with the Seniors like they did with the Moderns that one year). Come on, guys and women--- let's make some waves about this idea!

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 25 2012 12:44 AM

    Don, Cosme, and Nate I agree with everything you guys are saying. I think the voters on their final vote ether for a nomination for a senior nominee or the final group of nominees to be elected into the HOF should be made to give an explanation why they are voting down a nominee. If the sports writers had to give an explanation why they are voting down a nominee and let the public know why they are doing so, it would make them think twice....... I believe.

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  • Nate - August 24 2012 10:50 PM

    The deserving nomination of Dave Robinson ends the argument Jerry Kramer is not in because their are to may 60's era Packers in already. This also cements the opinion of many football fans that the Hall has no credibility. The nominations come from a bunch of media types with huge chips on their shoulders because Kramer has been successful in sport and is a best selling author. Get over your professional jealousy!! Sorry you guys #1)probably got picked on by jocks, #2)weren't good at sports so you read a ton of books and become Lit majors. Kramer beat all of you on both fronts! Your to busy typing articles that nobody reads or cares what you think, to actually know what the heck football is about. Steve Sabol has more creditably than this entire committee combined and he feels the omission of Kramer is a travesty. Can't wait to see who is next years nominees, at this rate Fuzzy Thurston will be in before Kramer. (no disrespect the Fuzz) His player career speaks for itself but outside football with Gridiron Great he is a great ambassador of NFL football. ALL TRUE FOOTBALL FANS SHOULD BOYCOTT THE HALL AND WRITE THE NEWSPAPERS (IF THEY STILL EXIST) THESE JOKERS WORK FOR. Do the write thing guys! Vince Lombardi said,"Truth is knowing your character is shaped by your every day choices." Not electing Kramer brings your character into question.

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  • Cosme - August 24 2012 08:38 PM

    Don: Are you serious? Dave Robinson has been a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Directors. How can this be verified? I really want to know!

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  • Don - August 24 2012 08:26 PM

    Here you go Cosme - The current Board of Trustees of which Dave Robinson is the Secretary. Hall of Fame Board of Trustees Chairman Thomas W. Schervish Owner & Chairman Stark Management Services Vice Chairman Theodore V. Boyd Chairman First Communications Donald E. Jakeway President & CEO Brooks Development Authority Secretary R. David Robinson, Sr. Retired Vice President Superior Beverage of Akron MARS Division Jerry Jones Owner/President/General Manager Dallas Cowboys Treasurer Roger A. Bettis President Green Lines Transportation, Inc. Willie E. Lanier Chairman of the Board The Lanier Group, LC/Pro Football Hall of Fame Member Assistant Treasurer Gary R. Smith COO 11 Good Energy Robert Mahoney Retired Chairman of the Board & CEO Diebold, Inc. K.S. (Bud) Adams, Jr. Founder, Owner, Chairman of Board, President, CEO Tennessee Titans Michael McCaskey Chairman of the Board Chicago Bears William H. Belden, Jr. Chairman of the Board The Belden Brick Co. Bernard McRae, Jr. President JMB Integrated Solutions William V. Bidwill President Arizona Cardinals John L. Muhlbach, Jr. Vice-President A.A. Hammersmith Insurance, Inc. Todd Blackledge Lead Analyst ESPN’s Saturday Night Prime Time Dennis Nash CEO Kenan Advantage Group Pat Bowlen President & CEO Denver Broncos James E. Nevels Chairman, The Swarthmore Group Chairman of the Board, The Hershey Company Mike Brown President Cincinnati Bengals Daniel M. Rooney Chairman Pittsburgh Steelers/Pro Football Hall of Fame Member Stephen G. Deuble President & Chairman of Board DCC Corp & The Massillon Plaque Co. Ed Roth President Aultman Hospital Donald W. Dougherty Attorney Krugliak, Wilkins, Griffiths & Dougherty Co., LPA Steve Schott Managing Partner CapTrust Peter R. Elliott Retired Executive Director Pro Football Hall of Fame Dan Snyder Owner Washington Redskins Roger Goodell Commissioner National Football League W.R. Timken, Jr. Former U.S. Ambassador to Germany Retired Chairman of the Board and CEO of the Timken, Co. Joseph Halter President Solmet Technologies, Inc. Denise DeBartolo York Owner San Francisco 49ers Randall C. Hunt Attorney Krugliak. Wilkins, Griffiths & Dougherty Co., LPA

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  • Don - August 24 2012 03:20 PM

    Oh now,I am starting to see the Dave Robinson connection. It appears that Mr. Robinson has also been a member of the Board of Directors for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I knew something stunk in Denmark or in this case Canton. Dave has been a Pro Bowler three times, while Baughan was a nine time Pro Bowler, Howley was a six timer, plus a SB MVP. We need to start making some serious waves regarding the selection committee. I for one am starting a web page dedicated to the very best Pro Football players not the most popular. Stay tuned when it goes live I will solicit nominees for induction based on performance not payoffs.

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  • Don - August 24 2012 03:17 PM

    Out of ALL the sports hall of fames, football is the most political. This is a DISASTER from so many points. With all the great linebackers, Baughan, Howley, Nobis, Russell, Fortunato, Brazile, etc. they choose Robinson!!!! Where the hell is Johnny Robinson instead if Culp. Robinson made All Time AFL first team and yet Emmitt Thomas and now Culp get in before him. Where is Eddie Meador's nomination? In addition to the aforementioned names what about Mick Tinglehoff and Jim Marshall? Who is paying off the senior committee guys, let me know and I will make a contribution to get deserving candidates in before it turns into a Gene Hickerson situation. Kramer not in before Robinson, Howley not in before Hayes, Karras not in before Culp....WHAT a JOKE, the committee SHOULD BE ASHAMED of themselves for leaving out such deserving candidates and being persuaded to vote for favorites instead of best performers....DG

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  • Cosme - August 24 2012 01:44 PM

    Victor: If what you write about Gosselin is true, it is a shame and a disgrace that Ralph Neely; John Niland; Drew Pearson; Cornell Green; Lee Roy Jordan; Chuck Howley; Cliff Harris; Harvey Martin; Nate Newton; Everson Walls; Charles Haley; and Darren Woodson do not have an effective advocate. As much as the list above may offend "ABC" fans (Anybody but the Cowboys) the bottom line is that every player mentioned above deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Yet, the deplorable anti-Cowboy bias continues to exist. Who is kidding whom? Dave Robinson deserves enshrinement! But before Chuck Howley? As dominating as Curly Culp's performance was during Super Bowl IV, did he win the MVP award as did Harvey Martin? The Hall of Fame selection committee is losing credibility with the foundation, the raison d'etre and soul of professional football: the fan.

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  • cosme - August 24 2012 08:11 AM

    Don: I am reading these comments. You are also correct and to the point. What is the nominating committee thinking? It is not that I do not think Robinson and Culp should be Hall of Famers. I do! But before the players you mentioned? Come on Hall! Get your act together!

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  • Myron McGhee - August 24 2012 06:55 AM

    Minnesota Vikings lineman Jim Marshall (#70) -- one of the most consistent and durable players in NFL history -- is not a member of the HOF. Why not?!?!? It's hard to believe that he is not enshrined alongside teammates Alan Page, Carl Eller, Ron Yary and other Vikings greats.

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  • Victor - August 23 2012 10:51 PM

    They should let fans choose HoF selection voters every few years, or change the process in some way. The current system is corrupt. For example, one reason for difficulty in getting deserving Cowboys into Canton (aside from the traditional anti-Cowboys bias) is that the current Dallas representative is Rick Gosselin, who grew up Michigan, is still a Lions fan, and who uses his position on the Senior Committee to try and push Lions for the HoF. In other words, DALLAS HAS NO REPRESENTATIVE; no one to advocate for their players. But it's a lifetime appointment, so I guess we're stuck with him until he retires or the system is reformed.

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  • cosme - August 23 2012 10:21 PM

    Paul: I agree with EVERY one of the players you listed. No bob Kuchenberg in the Hall? How can that be? And what about the FIRST Mr. Patriot, Gino Cappelletti to whom the record of most seasons leading the league in scoring (five) is held. Gino Cappelletti, the AFL's Paul Hornung, who not only kicked, but as a wide receiver, caught touchdown after touchdown. No Mac Speedie, the end for the Cleveland Browns? No Mick Tingelhoff? Or Jim Marshall? No Tommy Nobis or Jeff Van Note or Claude Humphrey? Why not? Because impact, transcendent Atlanta players "back in the day" played on losing teams? No Del Shofner, a receiver who consistently had 1000 yard seasons in an era where such an accomplishment was the exception rather than the rule. Or Otis Taylor. In 1971 he was the only receiver with over 1000 yards. Modern pundits acclaim the accomplishments of Jerry Rice, despite the TRUTH that he played in an era where twelve to eighteen receivers would catch balls for over 1000 yards every year he played. Would Jerry Rice have accomplished what Otis Taylor, Cliff Branch or Drew Pearson accomplished had Herb Adderley, Jimmy Johnson and Mel Blount been pounding on his pass routes from the moment the center snapped the ball, week after week? I doubt it. No. It is time the Hall of Fame Committee changed the selection rules. I do not buy the propaganda that the Jerry Rice's of this era were better than Otis Taylor - or Drew Pearson - or Cliff Branch. I just do not. Or that Alex Karras and Jerry Kramer should not be in the Hall and Fred Dean and Russ Grim should. I am not denigrating Grim or Dean. But the Hall selection process must be changed...I have read how one prominent sports writer defends his NOT supporting Terrell Davis as his career was too short. Oh yeah? In the eight playoff games Davis played in he AVERAGED 5.59 yards a carry (204 -1140). That is over a half yard per carry BETTER than Hall of Famer Marcus Allen's average...and Davis did this against the best defenses of his time. That means that in crunch time Terrell Davis's production transcended that of ANY Hall of Fame back in NFL history: better than Jim Brown; better than Jim Taylor; better than Steve Van Buren; better than Emmitt Smith - better than ANY of them. And Peter King cannot support Terrell Davis for the Hall? Davis - not John Elway - Terrell Davis - led the Broncos to two NFL championships. Come on! It is time for a change!

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 23 2012 04:33 PM

    I read all the postings. It seams to me the people posting their thoughts are much more knowledge about pro football and the men who played pro football than the so called voting members and especially some of the senior voting committee. There were over 20 letters written by Hall of Fame members in support of Jerry Kramer this last time didn't the voters even open the portfolio that was given to the committee members? The idea of enlarging the 2013 class because of the 50th year of the hall is brilliant and so right. I just hope the right people read all of the postings about the mistakes these so called sports writers are making. Listen to the fans and other players for once. There are so many people in pro football that have said they thought Jerry Kramer was in the HOF all ready.... even the commissioner thought Jerry Kramer was elected to the HOF years ago......... what a shame.

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  • Rocke Sweaney - August 23 2012 02:46 PM

    WOW !!!! Many GREAT posts, here, with MANY deserving names that should be in the Hall.Being an avid autograph collector ( I have 270 / 273 elected Hall of Famers ) I am ELATED over the fact that possibly the two MOST deserving guys that could be nominated, WEREN'T. There is no doubt that Lavvie Dilweg and Fred "Duke" Slater should have been elected over 40 years ago, but have been sadly, overlooked. Just hope they don't get elected until I get and autograph of them first. No doubt that Curley and Dave deserve to be in though.

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  • wm johnson - August 23 2012 02:41 PM

    No ken stabler no ray guy? I agree with hal jarvis who does the voting what you got to do DIE? I truly hope they don't wait until these guys are gone and then vote them in that makes no logical sense to me lot of player being over looked and it seems that its on purpose. I had refused to watch hall of fame inductions until 08 When a close friend from college went in (Fred Dean)Guess I am going to have to take it off my viewing again! No reason these two should not be in.

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  • Paul - August 23 2012 02:40 PM

    What they need to do once and for all is change the rules. The writers get the players for 15 years after that then it goes to a veterans committee where the HALL OF FAMERS decide who gets in. And with this being the 50 anniversary they should have the biggest class since the first class in 1963 And a huge number of them are veterans. Lets do the right thing and get these players in the hall. like KEN STABLER, RAY GUY, JERRY KRAMER, ALEX KARRAS, TOMMY NOBIS, CHUCK HOWLEY, JOHNNY ROBINSON, OTIS TAYLOR, BOB KUCHENBERG. I guarantee you that the hall of famers will do a better job then the writers they played the game and the writers all they have is politics. They must change the system.

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  • HAL JARVIS - August 23 2012 12:55 PM

    ONCE AGAIN, NO CHUCK HOWLEY NO LEE ROY JORDAN NO TOMMY NOBIS NO MIKE CURTIS NO JOHN BRODIE NO KEN STABLER NO RAY GUY NO JEFF VAN NOTE NO JERRY KRAMER NO RANDY CROSS NO GEORGE KUNZ #75 & NO MICK TINGLEHOFF...... WHO'S DOING THE VOTEING HELEN KELLER????????????????????????/

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  • Jeff Smith - August 23 2012 12:28 PM

    Don't forget Jerry Kramer. And yes Ken Riley both these guys are due, no long past due. I am a steelers fan so you know I hate the pack after the last SB. and I definitely hate the bengals but these guys are long past due and were far better at their positions than others that have already got in. Hell, Riley is still top 10 all time in INTS...

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  • charles sinchuk - August 23 2012 10:38 AM

    i think the voting should be based on a combination of 1st team all pros and [probowls carrying less weight ]. i don't see a better way to ensure the most deserving enshrined. i would also like to see a rule that if you make the finalist 4 times, you are guaranteed to get in with in a ten year wait.

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  • Cosme - August 23 2012 09:13 AM

    Charles: You are also correct in your post about AFL players. Curly Culp should enter the Hall; but before Johnny Robinson? Or Jerry Mays; or Jim Tyrer? Or E.J. Hulub? Or Otis Taylor? I count FIVE Kansas City Chiefs players from the Stram/AFL era who should be in the Hall and are not. Otis Taylor, Drew Pearson, and Cliff Branch, should all have their busts in the Hall of Fame BEFORE the voters discuss electing Andre Reed, Cris Carter and Tim Brown. I think about Bobby Boyd, Ken Riley, Lionel Taylor - many players who have been apparently ignored by the Hall of Fame committee and my heart breaks for those who SHOULD be enshrined but never will be because of petty politics and a voting system which emphasizes recently retired players.

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  • Cosme - August 23 2012 09:00 AM

    Eric: Greenwood, Shell and Russell should ALL be in the Hall of Fame. However, while we mention great players from the 70's Steelers and 60's Packers who should be in the Hall (Kramer and Boyd Dowler), there was a defensive end from the Landry era Cowboys who was better than Greenwood: Harvey Martin. Indeed, Drew Pearson (who was better and made bigger plays than Swann and Stallworth combined) should be in the Hall (George Atkinson is correct...Lynn Swann was soft. Swann is in the Hall of Fame because of ONE transcendent game: Super Bowl X)...as well as Chuck Howley; Lee Roy Jordan; Cliff Harris; Ralph Neely John Niland and Gil Brandt as the man who revolutionized drafting. Chuck Howley was a superior players to Dave Wilcox, Chris Hanburger and Dave Robinson. I hope Dave Robinson is enshrined, but there is a list of Landry era Cowboys who need to be recognized for years and years of sustained excellence in eras which began with the Lombardi Packers, continued through the Noll Steelers and to the Walsh 49ers.

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  • Scott - August 23 2012 07:40 AM

    I agree with many of these posts. It's tough not to see so many of these players in the Hall with it's extremely exclusive membership. I have always felt that there should be another source of voting considered other than just sportswriters who most have never even played the game. Something like the players peers who fought with or against these great players and then take both inputs, and filter out the candidates. Unfortunately you hear things like; "That team has too many members from that decade" or that "He'll never get in because he was nasty towards the media". Bunk! These are great athletes that played the game at a level few will ever achieve and it just seems a bit one sided when it comes to the selection process, no checks and balances. I would also like to mention the greats from the decades prior to WW2.

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  • charles sinchuk - August 23 2012 02:44 AM

    it should be called the nfl hall of fame. afl players will never get the respect they deserve

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  • charles sinchuk - August 23 2012 02:39 AM

    not to take anything away from these players but jerry kramer and johnny robinson have been finalist many times and it's their turn. it sickens me to see guys come out of no where and get elected when most that have waited as finalist eventually have their day. it's those that have proven themselves for many years as finalist that should get in first. the hall is becoming a joke!

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  • HAL JARVIS - August 23 2012 02:38 AM

    ONCE AGAIN, NO CHUCK HOWLEY NO LEE ROY JORDAN NO TOMMY NOBIS NO MIKE CURTIS NO JOHN BRODIE NO KEN STABLER NO RAY GUY NO JEFF VAN NOTE NO JERRY KRAMER NO RANDY CROSS NO GEORGE KUNZ #75 & NO MICK TINGLEHOFF...... WHO'S DOING THE VOTEING HELEN KELLER????????????????????????/

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  • HAL JARVIS - August 23 2012 02:37 AM

    ONCE AGAIN, NO CHUCK HOWLEY NO LEE ROY JORDAN NO TOMMY NOBIS NO MIKE CURTIS NO JOHN BRODIE NO KEN STABLER NO RAY GUY NO JEFF VAN NOTE NO JERRY KRAMER NO RANDY CROSS NO GEORGE KUNZ #75 & NO MICK TINGLEHOFF...... WHO'S DOING THE VOTEING HELEN KELLER????????????????????????/

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  • Cosme - August 22 2012 10:24 PM

    Dave Robinson and Curly Culp should BOTH be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2013. However, I do not understand how Jerry Kramer, who blocked for two Hall of Fame running backs (Taylor and Hornung) AND a Hall of Fame quarterback, (Bart Starr), is on the all 1960's team, the guard chosen for the All Time 50 year team, named by Vince Lombardi as the finest guard in football during his day, and, who made the most famous block in football history (along with Ken Bowman), allowing Starr to score with 16 seconds left to play in the 1967 NFL championship game (the Ice Bowl) is NOT in the Hall of Fame? How can this be? Too many 60's era Packers in the Hall? Well Dave Robinson AND Boyd Dowler should also be members of the greatest dynasty in football history! Fans should not forget that Dave Robinson, in addition to being a great Packer - whose interception prevented the Cowboys from tying the 1966 championship game in the last two minutes - was a member of George Allen's "Over-the-Hill Gang" and was the player who knocked Roger Staubach from the famous 1974 Thanksgiving game, leading to Clint Longley's improbable heroics. Nevertheless, when is Chuck Howley, the best outside linebacker of his generation, going to be enshrined. Howley's play and impact in Super Bowls V and VI were, dare I say it, Lawrence Taylor like in their dimension and force. Curly Culp was every bit the defensive tackle Mean Joe Greene and Alan Page were, but never received the press or notoriety.

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  • joellen47 - August 22 2012 10:22 PM

    Ray Guy???!! Best punter ever! Thorn in ND's side at Purdue and then with the Raiders, was AWESOME! Could place the ball within 5 yards of the goal line consistently. Give it up on kickers, this GUY was the best at what he did.

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  • Matt - August 22 2012 10:11 PM

    Once again, the Broncos are disrespected. WHERE IS RANDY GRADISHAR? His stats out did any of the Steelers LB's. over 2000 tackles in his 10 year career? Who can match that? Come on, man! Senior committee better pull their heads out.

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  • Victor - August 22 2012 08:53 PM

    Horrible choice. Chuck Howley gets robbed again, and for another, less deserving LB to boot to rub it in. The Senior Committee is a disgrace and Canton loses more credibility each year this farce continues. Chuck Howley - 5 first team All Pros, 6 Pro Bowls, Super Bowl MVP Curley Culp - 1 first team All Pro, 6 Pro Bowls Dave Robinson - 1 first team All Pro, 3 Pro Bowls The Pro Football HoF is becoming a joke.

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  • Victor - August 22 2012 08:52 PM

    Jim, Bettis is a modern era candidate. I suspect he'll get in at some point over the next few years.

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  • Eric Weimerskirch - August 22 2012 08:09 PM

    The Pittsburgh Steelers, like the great Green Bay Packers teams of the 1960's, should have three more Hall of Famers. OLB Andy Russell, DE L.C. Greenwood, and SS Donnie Shell were all multiple Pro Bowlers who each made key contributions to the 1970's Steelers teams. Russell was the mentor of Hall of Famers Jack Ham and Jack Lambert, while Shell was a great cover man who finished his career as the all-time interceptions leader for a strong safety. As for Greenwood, he was simply one of the very best DE's to EVER play the game. Ask Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Bert Jones, Ken Anderson, Dan Pastorini, Ken Stabler, Joe Ferguson, Craig Morton, Bob Griese, Joe Namath, Archie Manning, Joe Theismann, and Dan Fouts. They'll tell you there wasn't any DE better than Greenwood. Do the right thing and honor these 3 great Steelers (as well as Jerry Kramer of the Pack).

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  • Joseph Sexton - August 22 2012 06:49 PM

    Hey, what happen to Cleveland Brown Dick Schafrath being a finalist for the SENIOR NOMINEE? How old are these board members what make the decision on the Senior selections? The older players are gonna get the shaft with this so called selection committee. Come on hall of fame, or maybe it should be the hall of shame. Thank you,

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  • Jim - August 22 2012 06:41 PM

    I'm sure these two players are good candidates for the hall of fame but waiting for the time Jerome Bettis is elected.He is more than worthy to be there not only from his playing performance but his role model status in life.I am hoping I am still alive when he goes in.More than deserving now than later.

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  • Mark Pinheiro - August 22 2012 05:09 PM

    The two nominees are more than deserving but there is one Packer that is being snubbed again the guard that was named on the all NFL 50 year team JERRY KRAMER I hope this is the last year he is ignored.

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